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    Mailbag - Netcode Rebuttal Page Two

    Here's page Two of our viewer comments on the Netcode Interview article.

    Your opinions do count, and we certainly recieve a lot of them. Here's a special section of comments and views from our viewers to us, about articles and features up on this site. You have a opinion? You can use the feedback page, or directly by email to Please make sure Mailbag is in the subject line, as we get flooded with emails on a daily basis.

    If you wish to add your comments for all our visitors to read, just send a email. Some comments were not included due to shortness or was just repeating a previous submission, but we at GameSurge wish to thank everyone for taking the time to send their comments to us.

    We read every single email, and there are some fine points made. Please note that we strip the email address and any personal information from the submissions, due to "spam" engines.

    Cristian Golumbovici
    Monday, July 10, 2000 1:21 AM
    You know, I would have hoped Valve's interview cleared everything up, but then I read comments like that of Eric Wiltshire. (In the mailbag section.) Nothing personal, and he does make a few good points about changing an established game. After all, that's the kind of thing that ticked off everyone with Quake 2. But I strongly disaggree to his part of the argument which boils down to "I have a better computer, so I MUST win." No, the only thing that should matter is skill and in-game equipment. If you want to win through better equipment, buy a bigger rifle in the game. The player's computer or ISP are outside the game's universe, and thus have no business influencing game mechanics. The computer is but the means of linking you to the game universe, of conveying the action and content to and from you. But claiming that a bigger computer should give you an unfair advantage in the game's univers ranks up there with claiming that my favourite team must win because I have a bigger TV. All game physics should be tied to the real time clock, not to the frame rate, not to the screen resolution, and not to the ping or bandwidth. In an ideal world, a player with 300ms ping and 15 frames per second should still have the same opportunities, if he has the skill, as us bastards with 60ms ping and 100 frames per second. However, this is not an ideal world, and sadly ping does matter, and in a very few cases the frame rate also matters. But that's an unfortunate technological limitation, nothing more. And if Valve chose to try and do something about it, god bless them, as far as I'm concerned. It's probably not perfect, nothing is. But it's a step in the right direction.
    Carl Simpson
    Monday, July 10, 2000 8:44 AM

    "Then, there is a final possibility. The server at receiving the HPB’s action may determine it happened before the LPB’s and retroactively set things right. In other words the LPB may witness an HPB appear to die or withstand an attack, then themselves die, and the HPB go on the ir merry way. In this case the code has actually preserved events the way the should have been, the LPB’s actions that occurred after the point at which they should have died are ignored. It appears to the LPB as a total cheat, though. “I unloaded a whole clip into his chest then I died!” I wouldn’t think the code would work this way, but considering the complaints I’ve heard, perhaps it does. It doesn’t give the HPB an advantage, but it looks that way to the LPB."

    The point that has been missed is that the LPB has no chance to react to the first of a possible series of shots hitting them. Because the modemer is in a different time zone as it were, they can shoot at an LPB before they even tell the server that they've moved into their line of sight, the LPB then sees them starts to fire at them and the next thing they know they're dead and the modemer is unhurt and it is this that is the LPB's disadvantage. How can you react to something you do not know is happening?

    James I. Battles
    Monday, July 10, 2000 9:39 AM

    Now maybe it will hit home with some people about what the real problems in the game are. Yes i am referring to the ignorance and the cheating hehe. Now I will point as many of the mentally challenged hopefully with good reading skills though, to the page hehe. Alot of the people in the game now are still kind of newbies and they need direction. They tend to follow whoever because they are still learning but they have forgotten that we always learn. I can remember back when zoid first did a ctf mod and you really had to wade into it to even get it to work. The first time I played online quake ctf it was so raw!

    There was some tenseness but it gave way to comments of RLMAO because when the bogging to the server started there were uncontrolled bodies going everywhere. It was truly hilarious. You would hit the spacebar to jump and it wouldn't work so then you would hit it about 20 times and try to run too . All of a sudden you would without trying take off jumping and running all over the place . I still see it but it's suttle now days. Oh the days of the grappling hook were only comparable to ringling brothers circus trapeze acts. Back then gamers all used a keyboard only config with one key bound to multiple action which was in essence the beginninng of these scripts. I didnt bother though because you could execute the same commands manually. I would find me some rockets and point my grapple hook about 300 gaming yards away with the flag in hand and the enemy on my butt and take to the air. While airborn I would spin my body faceing astern and pummel them as they pursued me.

    In the Flagroom where I was headed they were hanging like Bats in every corner as high up as possible. when entering the room the rox would fly. Hell it has always been fun. Playerclass was the best thing since sliced bread! no more hunting weapons and we still had the grapple enabled. A sniper was a very deadly thing back then. I guess thats why they eliminated that grapple hehe. The kids nowadays come in and talk about being veterans. All you can do is maybe ask them a few questions out of interest and then let it go. I regularly listen to a 12-15 year old tell me about his veteranship and that he is the oldest ever and even try to call me a Llama. I just let it go as most of the real veterans do. Usually I try to channel them to create some game levels on their own. The guys in the bsp editing forums get a laugh then. Most beginners fail to read and use the zoom when designing and they get this massive level that has so many leaks that you get like 4fps in places if it will render at all. I have great respect for the editors .

    In order to build a working useable game level "awaits a journey truly an education in itself". So when a young veteran as I guess we could refer to them as, rants I just listen and converse and play> and definatley have fun. remember its not the destination but the journey! James Battles aka:Issac_Newton

    JD Duvalle
    Monday, July 10, 2000 5:49 PM

    Netcode ?? Your kiddin me. The Rebuttal is just as worse. Give me a break fellows. You can only do so much until you piss people off. You know. It's Weird I have played games for a while. I met Jim Battles from working at the local ISP. He got me hooked on Quake.We would stay up all night kicking but, and making maps. This was the life, Long hours, and bandwidth for the fraggin. Then as we got older. We found Half Life TFC. What a game.

    I remember Jim playing on his faithful 56k Modem.

    I had a T1 line of course and kicked butt, just no talent at all unlike Jimmy Boy. Things went great. We learned as we got older , and we have had one hell of a body count to show for it. Now, Here Comes a Patch! Wow, It should make everything better. It was an expected glory to the add-on. And after it was done and gone. We, the players, Got screwed over worst than Clinton in washington. Least we still have our prides. Now when I play on some NCA server with Jim, My ping gets so high, I start to look for my PC getting stoned. I have never seen this in a game before. Who do these poeple think they are. I certainly am glad there are other games. In an attempt to put my boss in a better mood. I started playing at home. Now I relize why Jim was always pissed at me for having the Bandwidth as I did. Talk about slow. I have never seen that much drag that was not on a New Orleans Street Corner.

    However, I did notice something. Instead of being a LPB at work. I was kicking a 150-450 ping on some of my favorite servers in Gamespy. Not bad!. I have had worse. I have seen worse as well. Whats so funny is. That Neat little Patch that Sierra put out not only screwed the game. Playing on a T1 for me is like going to 56k modem before I patch my version up. I now get somewhere around a 390 - 480 pings. If you mix in the people using scripts. It really makes a bad cup of coffee. This is not reality. It's BLOODY WAR. How, in your honest opinions can you say that this patch was good for the game. What, to give some players a edge. Heck no, I get killed while on the other side of the wall.

    That Second fix that they came out sure didn't do a damn thing. Crap, I get kill without even leaving the respawn. Fix the cheats my butt. You try running across a bridge as a scout and getting knocked off like a building in a storm. Before the patch, they could never even come close, unless you had some type of skill in the game. I have to admit. Jim was always the talented player. There's large number of players that are really good. Afraid to say this I am not. They have talent. They don't cheat, they play to get frags. Not to beat the system. It's a game folks. Thats it. It's made to have fun at it. Getting a frag is nice. Why take all the fun out of it. It doesn't become a game. It becomes a slaughter house for the cheaters, and whinners. I know I am one. I have used scripts before, I have done plenty of griping as well. But what I miss in the game is the Action. Team work is the game, and this new code just takes it away from us. However, whats my opinion. I am simply the ass who has to put up with the crap if I want to play. Thanks, Jason Duvalle ( Aka: Einstein, Cybernut)

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